Hi, Go Magic team, and hello readers! As we are getting much closer to the start of the EGC, we wanted to introduce you to one of our sponsors: Go Magic, a learning platform for go players providing video lessons, a skill tree, coaching services and regular posts and content about the world of go.
Today we are joined (virtually) by Anton, Vadim, Mike (Mikhail), Eugenia, Hoang and Tony (other Anton).
1) Your platform is quite unique in the go community. It’s a huge amount of work, how challenging has your adventure been so far?
Vadim – There were lots of technical challenges that Anton had to overcome and a lot of financial hardship that the team had to go through together. I’d say most of Go Magic’s challenges still lie ahead. Making the game of go attractive to many people who have never played it and then teaching them to play – that’s a tough one.
Anton – The main challenge is marketing, because the market of English-speaking go players is quite small. To address this, we focused on expanding the market and attracting new people to play go. I believe that commercializing go is the best approach, because it is driven by a financial motivation.
We were also significantly impacted by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine in February 20221. Fortunately, most of our team had migrated from Russia to Georgia in 2021, but it was still a tough challenge both psychologically and financially. The platform’s release was scheduled for March 2022, and we had planned to take a vacation afterward, but instead, we had to work three times harder to save the project as our sales plummeted to almost zero. Despite our international team, we faced discrimination, which, though understandable, was painful. It’s less prevalent now, but it is still difficult for me to talk about my origin, even though I had no choice in where I was born.
the Go Magic user dashboard
Did you stop on the road because of doubts or fears?
Eugenia – If we had stopped on the road because of doubts and fears, we wouldn’t be talking today! I think during these years each of us had a screaming thought of “Just screw it, I am so done with it!” many times, but then we looked at what had already been achieved, imagined what lies ahead and from the bottom of the heart whispered with love, “I’m so not over it”.
2) What are your plans for the future? Have you considered providing new content to target more dan-level players?
Anton – Our ambitious plan is to create an online go platform similar to chess.com – a modern website (and app) that provides everything a player needs: playing, learning and communicating. We started with interactive courses and then added a skill tree. Currently, we are working on adding the ability to play games on the platform and have AI-assisted game reviews. We are also upgrading our league to enhance community development.
Regarding strong players, they are a minority, so it is not profitable to target them. If someone has independently reached 1-dan or higher, they know how to study go without us. Nonetheless, we have seven courses that will interest dan-level players.
Vadim – Yes, we have lots of ideas to try and implement. Mini-games, other game modes, the most convenient joseki dictionary, AI tools and many others.
Eugenia – Honestly, we have so many ideas, but so few resources to actually execute them. This is a real problem and some sacrifices have to be made. I dream of the day when a trial period for new users, Go Magic merch, a convenient referral program and other things I’ve put in the ideas folder will get the green light.
3) How do you manage to work together, as you’re always in different places? How does it work for recording the lessons?
Vadim – It was technically easier when we all lived in the same apartment for a year or so. Communication tends to be easier when you can just give your teammates a holler and they hear you from the next room. Recording a lesson is not just filming. It all starts from concepts, writing the script, finding the right examples and arranging them in the best order. When filming finally starts, it could take anything from an hour or two, to half a day or even more. Then editing begins, which is usually done by Mike and me in close collaboration. Mike does the editing magic and I come up with extra things for him to do. :)
Extra things to do coming up!
Mike – We, the core of the Go Magic team, were living in close proximity for a long time, and that allowed us to get this far. Working with people who live in different geographical locations was indeed challenging, as they could sometimes just disappear. But those who were able to get through the challenges are true gems, and contributed (and keep contributing) a great deal to the project.
Oh, so you guys lived together for a while, was it hard?
Eugenia – The guys mentioned the constrained co-working/co-living that came about in Georgia. I met them for the first time during that exact period and, surprisingly for me, jumped in to volunteer for the project in exchange for a shared meal and a mattress on the floor. It was only for three months, but these conditions do take a mental toll. I will never forget this ambivalent feeling of, “Look, I love you, but also wish you would get out of my sight”. At the moment it felt very challenging, but now I remember this time as one of the warmest in my life. These are people who drove me insane at moments with heated arguments, and these are people who I appreciate and respect the most. I think this period formed some unbreakable bond between us and I feel a connection to them no matter where everyone is currently located – and I love them no matter our differences and disagreements. Maybe that’s what family is, huh? Go Magic is a family, in a way. And the family is growing.
Mike – We are looking for more of you who would like to make their own move on a board in order to keep go moving forward on a global scale. Please visit https://gomagic.org/jobs/ and leave us a message if you want to participate and contribute! :)
Are we allowed a sneak peek behind the scenes?
Mike – Sure, here is one of my favorite pieces, and it depicts the hurdles quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QVNqVyK5go
4) Now I have technical questions for you. Let’s start with Hoang, who designs the Go problems. What’s the most challenging part of that work?
Hoang – Many factors, such as knowledge of different go concepts, calculation ability and constructing the lesson’s structure are taken into account for creating problems, but let’s delve into each of them later. To sum it up, the major challenge of my work is, of course, raising the quality bar of a problem as high as possible. I define a high-quality problem as one that not only provides valuable knowledge on a skill set, but also consists of a clear explanation to help users fully understand the problem. I have to admit that most of the problems I’ve composed need improvement. Until now, many of them still have shortcomings. As a result, I’ve received a lot of criticism stating that users don’t understand the problems or how the solutions work. This may be due to my past inexperience, or simply because I couldn’t anticipate all the confusion that users might feel when tackling the problems. Therefore, after completing the skill tree, I plan to upgrade all the previous problems generally. Having learned from past mistakes, I am certain that the upgraded versions of the problems will be much better. I’d like to thank you for all the critiques, as well as for your patience with us.
5) How would you define the best approach for teaching? In Europe it’s often a vast debate, as many consider we should start with atari go or, on the contrary, avoid it. In your team, I assume opinions may diverge on that question. Do you often discuss it?
Anton – Yes, we had many discussions on this topic when preparing the course for beginners. For example, we debated whether to use Japanese or Chinese rules. We chose Japanese because they are the most popular among English-speaking players, though Chinese rules are generally more convenient for beginners.
Atari Go is crucial for beginners as it develops important skills and provides smooth immersion. Many strong dan players did not face issues when starting go, so they might see atari go as a game that only teaches stone capturing. However, a personalized approach is ideal: some people might not need atari go or even a 9x9 board, finding it too boring. A good teacher should identify this quickly. For the majority, though, atari go and a 9x9 board are definitely beneficial.
Mike – We do have different opinions, and we’re trying to accommodate the strengths of each approach in our courses. I think the presence of different opinions allowed us to make our teaching content more complete and broad, and the feedback from our users supports my opinion. We can’t make it perfect, but we’re not far from it!
6) In the last years, we see more and more Go Magic posts about the international go World, events in Asia and so on. Do you think Europe needs to put more emphasis on its ties with Asia, starting by sharing common news?
Vadim – I don’t think Europe or anyone else needs ties with Asia to enjoy the game of go. I have a feeling that go is perceived very differently in Asia (as a hobby for senior citizens) and I’m not sure we want to move in that direction. However, sharing the infosphere is essential. Since most of the big games and matches are played in Asia, it would be great to let those interested have simple access to them.
Right now, there doesn’t seem to be any single place on the internet where western players can get all of that information quickly. For example, I’m in South Korea now and when I was visiting the Korea Baduk Association building, Shin Jinseo was playing a match there. Later that day I tried to read more about it or download an sgf, but apparently if you can’t read Korean, getting that information right there on that day is nearly impossible.
Mike – During my brightest years of learning go (around 2010), I always felt the urge to get deeper into go culture, but the Eastern go world was very closed to outsiders. I remember that we would share rare, low-quality videos recorded from Japanese TV channels, and it was everything we had. But even today, the division between Eastern and Western go worlds is still quite big. We can’t do much on that regard just yet, but as you’ve noticed, we’re trying to break this wall with the resources we have. If today’s players are just as passionate as I was during my best years, I feel like it’s our duty to influence the situation in a positive way.
Anton – Go is a fantastic tool for uniting people of different nationalities, races, ages and religions. I always say that go is not about the board and stones; it’s about the people who play. Sharing go news is essential, but there is no good media outlet that publishes news globally. We considered creating a weekly show on our YouTube channel dedicated to news, but we currently lack the resources. We are always open to cooperation and would be glad to create a good YouTube show or a go media outlet with someone.
7) what do you expect from the EGC? For yourselves, as go players, but also as Go Magic?
Vadim – I don’t have many expectations, but I do hope to visit one of the next EGCs. This is probably the biggest go enthusiast’s feast in the world. Kudos to the organizers!
Anton – I have no specific expectations either :) However, the EGC provides a great opportunity for players to come together, share their passion and learn from each other. It’s invaluable! Organizing an EGC is always a serious challenge, so I wish the organizers good luck and minimal unexpected difficulties!
Eugenia – Unfortunately, this year I am the only one who will be able to make it to the venue. EGC 2024 has an incredible organizing team that I admire a lot, there is no doubt that it will be a wonderful event!
As a Go Magic team member, I hope that many go players will discover our platform and fall in love with it as much as we fell in love with making it. And I am sure I’ll meet a lot of interesting people with whom I will have a lot to talk about. Find me at the venue!
Ok, a final question to conclude. If you were on the edge of the world stuck between a mountain and the sea, and aliens came to kill you, how would you convince them not to kill you and rather, to start playing go? (Let’s say that Vadim has the hiccups and can’t do the talking for the first five minutes, and let’s say they have the physical ability to hold go stones)
Vadim – I have the hiccups? Then I guess I have no choice but to let other team members do the talking, pray that they say the right things and play some extraterrestrial tesuji.
Tony – I would present go as our ultimate treasure and offer to share the knowledge, hoping that this will suffice. Then, I’d bring Vadim some water to help him recover more quickly :)
Mike – I would say, “First, try to kill me on the board!”
Thank you all for this great discussion! And for curious readers, we encourage you to check out the full story of Go Magic and discover the platform!
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The Go Magic team stands in support of Ukraine and condemns Russia’s aggressive invasion of the territory of a sovereign state.
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